Interview

About a week after their show at the Download festival in Paris, troopers from SABATON are back to chat a little bit about their new effort, « The Last Stand », first album written by the new line-up. As usual, Joakim is cool, fun, and wants to talk. It goes a little bit like that :

SBM : Hello Joakim, I know it's late but I hope you have still some energy left. I'll try to be quick !

Joakim : Oh no I'm ok, let's go !

Well thank you ! First of all, sad but true, you didn't play at the Hellfest Open Air Festival this year because you already played at the Download. The lucky guys who were there had a chance to hear your brand new song, « The Lost Battalion », live. How was it received by the fans ?

Oh I don't know I was so nervous when we were playing it ! (Laugh) You know, still after all these years when we make a new album, when we play new songs live we're afraid of… Making a mistake with the lyrics or something, so we're very focused. I think it went well, but I'm not sure actually. (Laugh)

I think it's a good song so you won't have to worry about that! And now that everything is done, what's your feeling about the work you and the band have done on this record.

(Laugh) I don't know man! It's tricky with albums. In the beginning we start writing music, there are songs, and at the end of the writing process you start analyzing because you're worried that it's not good enough. And for me, at the end of the writing process, everything sounded bad and slowly but surely you realize it's the way it's supposed to be I guess. Then we start recording it and it starts to become fun again and when they're almost ready you really like it.
But then comes the mixing process and a little bit of that joy disappears, I know it has to be done but to sit there and think “Oh maybe we should increase the volume on this or that”, “Is this a little bit out of tune”, you're listening for errors or mistakes I guess and I'm in a mode where I don't listen to the music, I listen to the frequencies, to the instruments, to the levels. And I think I'm still a little bit in that mode, seeing other people reactions, knowing how I felt about the album when I wrote it and when we were recording it.
I know we didn't do a catastrophic album, I like it a lot, I'm happy about it. I don't know if it's fantastic or really good, I don't think it's up to me to tell it to people, it's up to everyone to decide, I'm not a propaganda machine. (Laugh)

Oh that's really professional! Well what I can say is that the album is good. Really. But I was expecting more… Original stuff. Something different. There are some new and great things, we'll talk about it. For “Heroes” you did most of the work, because of the line-up changes. So for “The Last Stand”, did Chris and Thobbe participated or was it just you and Pär?

I was in charge of the lyrics yeah, but there were more interactions in the band, in the studio and the song writing. The song “Shiroyama”, with samurais was almost written with Thobbe, and “The Last Stand” with churches choirs and church bells on the beginning was written with Chris. And we also have a song from “Heroes” that we didn't finish because we didn't want to rush it. But it's the first time in SABATON history that everyone has been a part of the writing process. I think it's really nice and with “Heroes” we had the first album with the new line-up, so we were feeling that we had to prove that SABATON can still be SABATON.
So we did it really… SABATON and on this album, not only solo writing, but also with the drums, how it's played, how would Chris and Thobbe do the guitar solos, they had more freedom. I maybe held them back a little in “Heroes” because it had to sound like SABATON but you can hear more of their musical identity and I think it's a good thing.

Yeah although there's a big unity on the record, we can easily hear some differences, some new riffs like the one on “Rorke's Drift”. As you've recorded the album with Peter Tägtgren once again, did he really help you on the record to give your very best?

Well he's not really involved in the writing, except for “Heroes” where we did most on the songs together, but he's our producer, and he means a lot for the SABATON sound. But the songs are 90-95% done when we come to the studio so he doesn’t do a lot, BUT he's very good at bringing the best out of every band members, he is a drummer, a guitar player, so he knows every musician languages. When he sat next to Chris while recording the guitar solo and Chris think” Oh this is great” and Peter said “Yeah it's a great idea but why do you have to play it so fast? Think about what the song means”, he really pushes everyone to the best.
It's the same with me when I'm singing, I feel proud and say “That was a good take” and he say “Yeah it's a good take… but you can do better! Come on again!”

He's the master and you obey! (Laugh)
(Laugh) Yes a little bit!

Is he the reason you had the bagpipes on the song “Blood of Bannockburn” ? I really like that song, it sounds really rock and the bagpipes is something totally new! I wish there were more stuff like that on the album.

I wish that too!! (Laugh)

Oh yeah? So will you do, someday, something in that mood, I don't know, for example something Celtic or folk, talking about an old war or character like Jules Cesar, where you can use classical instruments?

I'd like to, but the problem is that after a certain amount of albums, some of the fans want something new, to push the frontiers. But an other part of the fans want something new… but also something old, traditional. And the biggest problem is that a certain amount of people who are listening only want traditional stuff. The reason I loved this band is that it sounded like this, I don't want that to change, it's a very hard line to walk and we try on every album to push the boundaries on one or two songs: on “Blood of Banocknurn” for “The Last Stand”, on “To Hell and Back” on “Heroes” and you also have “The Cliffs of Gallipoli”.
“To Hell and Back” was a little different, of the song sounds, how it's built. And the other one was “Inmate 4859” and that one was not very popular at all; so I believe we should evolve and I think some fans want it a little bit but we should do it slowly, test the waters and see where it takes us.
Obviously if we do a totally different album, a concept album, for example, let's be extreme, a Viking album, we would try to use some tonalities, some traditional instruments, if we do something about the Irish history, I think you can be a little bit more adventurous because it's easier for everybody to accept that it sounds different for a reason. “The Last Stand” is not a concept album, it's has a theme, so we don't want do go too fast and find out two albums later that we went into the wrong direction. (Laugh)

I agree but every time you try something different it's great, really, so go on! You are talking about the theme, the idea of last stands, which fits with SABATON music, it's epic, powerful a little bit tragic. Who had the idea?

Actually we had a total different plan about one month before the recording of the demos for the album. We were sitting there, discussing, we liked the themes but with the songs we had it didn't suit so well, there was not the “click”. So we came back to the idea of the last stand that we had and we thought “Yeah that's what we gotta do, some of these songs will be perfect if we start to look at the stories”. It sounds like we're coming home because… It's not “Heroes 2” but in general a last stand is a smaller group against a much larger force and I find it so more intriguing, I'm so emotionally involved that you got to know the names of the people, the story, you got to know the soldiers instead of songs talking about half a million there, 200,000 there, they meet on that field blablabla.
It's interesting too but it takes a certain type of songs to do that.

It's true that you're really involved and passionate by that. When you write the lyrics, how do you do the researches?

Hum well “Carolus Rex” is a good example, we had a history professor helping us with the whole thing, finding out the right books about the Swedish empire, finding the cool stories that aren't really well known. Then we did our thing but before we record the vocals, we checked with him, and it was correct, we did our homework. (Laugh)
But when it comes to this album for example we tried not to do too much on the beginning because it's all new, we wanted to scratch the surface. Let's take for example “Shiroyama”. I knew the outlines, but we didn't do researches until we know “Yes this is the song, this is the subject”. Pär and I talked and said we see each other in two days, and then you look at documentaries, you read books, you use Wikipedia and other sources. And at that point when the story is new to us, we are the most passionate about it and that's when we start writing the lyrics. I think it was harder in the past when we did researches a year in advance because you end up with a big pile of information wondering “Where do I start? How do I feel the story, should I talk about troops movement? Should I tell it from this side or that side?”.
At the end of the “Primo Victoria” days I ended up finding on the internet a translation of 8 pages of a Russian soldier diary and that what I used to write the lyrics instead.

As each song tells a story there, which is your favorite one? Yeah I know it's a tricky question!

You mean musically or about the story ?

You know what ? Let's do both ! On the story, my favorite one is “Shiroyama”. Warriors fighting guns with swords, surrounded, I love that! And musically, “Blood of Bannockburn”, the bagpipes and rock mood are awesome.

It's quite difficult for me because it changes from day to day! (Laugh)
Musically I'd say “Shiroyama” or “Blood of Bannockburn”… Yeah “Blood of Bannockburn”, closely before “Shiroyama”. On the subject and history… “The Last Battle”. I think it's hard to beat a story where Wehrmacht soldiers and American soldiers, all volunteers go to a castle in the Austria to protect and free French prisoners of war that would have been executed by the SS.
And then they have this charming name on a Sherman tank called “Bosotten Jenny” and they parked it at the gate to stop them. I think it's a perfect way to end the album, on a lighter note, full of humanity somehow. (Laugh)

Yeah it's a truly beautiful story, will you explain it in the booklet next to the lyrics like you did for “Heroes”?

Yeah actually it's quite the same length as “Heroes”, we try to keep it not too long because it's becoming boring, just long enough to know what's going on but you want to know more.

Good news! And I have the privilege to have heard one special lesson from you ! (Laugh)
All of this will be released just the day before the Sabaton Open Air… Choice or coincidence ?

(Laugh) I'd say it's a chosen coincidence ! Our festival started in 2008 and was called Rock City Falun and not Sabaton Open Air and we had the dream to do something bigger, with friends, other bands we toured with, that we liked, we invited some younger bands that were good but had not much attention. And now, 9 years later we're still doing the festival in the same way, at this point we can do it as a release party for the album and we have bands we like like Saxon, band we toured with like DragonForce and Therion and younger bands that we like.
It's kind of hard to get decent metal gigs in the center of Sweden.

Really? As a lot of metal bands come from Scandinavian countries I thought I would have been much simpler.

Oh yeah that's the case a lot of gigs are planed in Sweden but in Stockholm or south and we live three hours north of Stockholm. It's getting trickier and trickier but it was worse when we started in the late 90s, early 00s. Heavy metal was not as big as now. In 1999 I remember I saw Motörhead in Sweden in front of 500 people.

Not big indeed… Hopefully things are changing and it's a good thing because SABATON is approaching its 20 years old. Have you think about something special to celebrate that?

Yes we'll do something, it's for sure. I would say it would be the perfect time on 2019, the 12th of December because that was the first time we performed under the name of SABATON. We had done a few shows but with other names. So it would be fun, I'm hoping to do something, maybe our schedule won't allow exactly that date, but in a perfect world won't tour so we'll see.

Do you have any plans about what you'll do? Re-record old songs for example ?

Hum not that. I think a song is a capture of the moment, but maybe it would be fun to do a show and play the same set list as we did on the first show.

Yeah that's a good idea… The thing is to do something unique where fans could say “I was there”. Somehow it's possible for some fans because since “Carolus Rex” you always record live DVDs. Will you do the same on that tour?

I hope so, I really love live albums actually, it will depend on how much we can change the setlist, which songs are popular. But yeah it would be nice to do not only a show but also a documentary about the band instead of a couple of concerts. I like to see and listen how a band evolves… I think of Iron Maiden live stuff. And some songs disappear from setlists, some songs change years later so I think it'd be a good sample of the band at that time.

You already did it somehow on the latest release “Heroes on Tour”, because you have two totally different setlits, one really for the fans at the Sabaton Open Air and something more… Mainstream for the Wacken. As you have now a lot of albums I suppose it's tricky to create a setlist.

Yes it gets harder and harder any time. Now we've come to a point in our career where we have to not play songs that have been played in most places we've been, if you know what I mean.
We have to “kill” some songs we played for years and that people expect us to play. But on the other hand on our headlining tour we'll try to play a little longer to play between four and six songs from the new album, because I feel for sure that we got four or six songs that are great enough to deserve to be on the SABATON setlist. But which one ?? I don't know yet! (Laugh)

Well one day you play a song, then another the next day and then you choose!

It's very important for us to not have a static setlist. Because if we go to Finland we have songs about Finnish history, if we go to Poland it's a total different setlist.

Of course, but the one thing we always see on every stages, and you have to keep it true: Your smile! (Laugh)

Yeah I try to keep it ! (Laugh)

Cool! Because I've seen the “Heroes on Tour” BluRay and I've seen you in France this winter and I really loved that! You have fun on stage, you love what you're doing and we can feel this it! So keep it real!

Yeah don't worry we won't change! You know we're almost doing it by pleasure so it's natural!

Good to hear it! And I think I've taken enough of your time, so I leave you the final words if you want to conclude or say something for the French fans.

I'd like to thank you my friend, it's the most important thing, because we had a hard start in France, we always had to bring a small production but this time in January we we're coming we can bring the full production almost everywhere. I always feel bad when we have the full one in some places and the small one in some towns. If you want to see a good SABATON show, check the limited edition of the “Last Stand”, it's one of my favorite SABATON show ever, it was in Nantes and was filmed by the Hellfest team. It was on TV but only 16 minutes, there we have the full show.
It's a band that was not scared, because when we do rock we are scared, so much pyro, so many new things we have to remember and say. But that night we came to have fun so I recommend everyone to check that out.

I'll check it on my Earbook! And I’ll tell you how I felt on the upcoming tour. Thank you once again Joakim for your time and you kindness. Have a nice evening!

Thank you man! Bye bye!